The Four Priorities of Winning New Business

What do we do in those situations where we have to pitch? Blair simplifies some important principles from his books into a sequence of four precepts we can follow when the sales process doesn’t progress like we’d hoped.

Links

“The Only New Business Indicator That Matters” 2Bobs episode

“Assume an Advantaged Player” 2Bobs episode

“Slapping Down Your Childlike Glee” 2Bobs episode

Transcript

David C. Baker: All right, today, Blair, I'm interviewing you. Topic is the four priorities of winning new business. I know the first one, there's four like the title suggests, but the first one is to win without pitching. Before we dive into that, I wonder if you could just define that a little bit because I hear a lot of people, especially on LinkedIn, there's too many people on LinkedIn, I don't know if you've noticed that, but they're all saying we never pitch. It's like, I know you pitch. What do you mean by you don't pitch? You mean you don't give away free ideas? What do you mean by pitching here? What's pitching and what isn't?

Blair Enns: In this context, pitching is giving your ideas away for free in the sale as effectively solving the client's problem as proof of your ability to solve the problem.

David: Sort of like we do in this podcast, right?

Blair: Yes.

David: Give away our thoughts for free. [laughs]

Blair: We should talk about that because I know you get the same messages that I do too. I can't believe this is free. I think, yes, I can't believe it is either. We've talked about it for years. People should be paying for this, shouldn't they?

David: To take this back to your point, you're not applying it specifically to a specific client. That would cross the line. That would be pitching.

Blair: This is some language that I got from you, which is, basically, you put your expertise out there in the world through content marketing, thought leadership, whatever you want to call it, but the minute somebody asks you to apply that thinking to their business, that's the minute when you start to charge. That's what's happening in a pitch.

A client is dangling this carrot, which is their budget in front of you and saying, now just show me what you're going to do. Show me what the creative is, come up with a strategy, et cetera, various forms of pitching free ideas. That's what I mean by pitch. A pitch, you think of it as a client-directed, arms-length selection process where you are told or it is implied that it's in your best interest for you to solve the problem as proof of your ability to solve the problem and a means of winning the business.

David: Okay, so you could be in a competitive situation without giving away your free ideas, and that would not violate this win without pitching. That's the first priority. You're saying there's four priorities of winning new business and the first one is try to do it without pitching, without giving away free ideas. Is that fair?

Blair: That's fair. Then it begs the question, well, how do you do that? The answer to that question has taken an entire business and series of books to answer, so we're not going to do it justice. These four priorities are covered in The Win Without Pitching Manifesto published in 2010. I guess the short answer to that question is follow the 12 proclamations of the manifesto.

David: Okay, so if they don't have that book, it'd be a good idea to buy it. You're saying this is your ideal, is the first thing is that you win without pitching. If you can't do that, well, then you go to the second one, right? That's why this one is first. Your whole business, you, Blair's whole business, is structured around this idea that we should win without having to give away our ideas?

Blair: Yes, but also the steps that follow, because you can't always. I understand that that's a nice ideal to strive towards, and it's easier for some individuals and some businesses than it is for others. The larger your firm, the larger your clients, the closer you are to New York City, the harder it is to win without pitching.

David: [chuckles] Do you have any idea, I don't know if you have numbers or if you've seen them, how many new business presentations involve giving away free ideas that are specific to that client?

Blair: Well, I think back in the day when I used to do it, it was all of them. Today, it would be somewhat less than all of them. I think there are many firms out there that, whether they've been exposed to my material or not, they no longer feel like they have to solve the problem as proof of their ability to solve the problem, but I have no idea what that number would be.

David: When I'm on the phone with a prospect, I'm a normal human tempted to give answers away too quickly instead of asking questions, stuff you talk about a lot. Sometimes I'll peel off some narrow little thing and go really, really deep and apply it to their business without getting paid just to illustrate the depth of what it might look like to work together. Is that wrong?

Blair: No, I don't think so every once in a while. I haven't met a rule that I'm not fond of breaking from time to time, or at least bending. [laughs]

David: Oh, I know you. Boy, oh my God, is that an understatement.

Blair: I'm fond of saying where I live, laws are more like guidelines. No, I do it too. When I'm operating at my best and I do it, I'm fully conscious of the fact that I'm doing it. I will say to the client in the call, "Listen, I'm going to violate some of my own advice, and I'm going to cross the line that separates talking about helping you versus helping you. I'm going to tell you what you should do in this situation."

I'll give the free piece of advice. It's almost always met with a thank you, with an understanding of, okay, I understand I'm not paying you. I appreciate the advice. Even I don't remember to do that all the time. Sometimes I'm just a little bit too lazy or too comfortable in a sale. I do not follow my own methodology rigorously enough. I wake up and I realize, what conversation is this? Is this a qualifying or a value conversation? What step? Am I really giving away free advice? I'm guilty of this too. Sometimes it makes perfect sense to do it, and sometimes it's just a horrendous mistake.

David: It seems like one distinction that's important there is whether the client asked for it or whether you volunteered it. It just seems to not be as evil and yucky if I volunteer it and it's not because they asked it of me.

Blair: Yes. We talk about the flip, which is the name for the moment in time when you move, in the mind of the client, from a vendor to the expert. I make this generalization. If you're not seen as the expert, then you're seen as just another vendor. You can tell early in the conversation whether or not this flip has happened, how they view you. Do they see themselves as the prize to be won or do they see you as the prize to be won?

When the flip hasn't happened, whether we're conscious of this or not, we're looking to make it happen. One of the ways that we might look to make it happen is to impart a piece of wisdom. Sometimes that piece of wisdom, very often that piece of wisdom comes in the form of advice beginning to solve the client's problem. There's a completely logical reason why we would do this.

David: Right. The first is to win without pitching. You say here that this is the ideal, but it's not always possible. We're picturing a client that you otherwise would really like to have and the other things sort of fit. If you can't just possibly win the business without pitching free ideas, what's the next step? What's the second priority?

Blair: The second step is to derail the pitch. When I think of the best new business people that I've ever worked with in the agency space, it's not their ability to command a room. It's not the size of their Rolodex, how many contacts they have on LinkedIn, the size of their network. It's not their ability to build and present a deck. It is their ability to derail a pitch. That's where the client comes to you typically self-diagnosed and self-prescribed and sometimes highly specified. "I know what the problem is. I know what the solution is. Here's what the solution needs to contain. Here's a list of the things that need to be true. I just need you to give me a price."

Now, it's not always that detailed where the client is that far down the road without an informed third-party opinion such as yours, but it's common that that's a situation. In that situation, client comes to you with a request for X or even an RFP for X. This is what I'm fond of saying. The best business development people can take an RFP for a tactical project and close outside of that RFP on a strategic engagement.

Again, it comes from this idea that the client is self-diagnosed and self-prescribed. They think they know what the problem is. They think they know what the solution is. They come to the agency, a vendor in this case, says, "I want to see your price on X." The salesperson looks and goes, "Okay, sure. First, do you mind if I ask you a few questions?" Then they get to the heart of, is the problem really X? Is the solution really Y?

This is what the book The Challenger Sale is all about, adding value in the sale itself by challenging the client's ideas of what the problem is, what the solution might be. I would add the path to procuring that solution. You get the client to rethink these things. Then you offer them an alternative next step. "Why don't we just take this small step together? Okay, now let's take another step." Before you know it, you're hired for the big project that is not the same as the project that they came to you and three or four others with.

David: The other three or four others are developing their ideas.

Blair: They're left pitching to the old brief, right?

David: This is the same client that would come to you later and say, "Hey, listen, we've got some needs here. Can you help me think through this RFP we're developing?" They bring you in before they develop the next RFP because you've shown a light on the old one and it wasn't all that good.

Blair: Yes, that's ideal.

David: One of the episodes we did that I remember the most was called The Only New Business Indicator That Matters. If you're listening, you haven't heard that, it was in October of 2019. That refers to this second priority, right?

Blair: Did you affect the buying process? To what extent did you affect the buying process? If you do what I just modeled where you get the client to put their problem and the solution aside, willingly rethink both those things, and then take a small alternative next step with you, that is significantly affecting the buying process. That is essentially, in as few words as possible, that's how you derail the pitch.

There are other tools that you can use there. An alternative next step is typically some form of a diagnostic, where they pay you a little bit of money to go in and validate assumptions or challenge their assumptions. Let's find out what's really going on here. Why don't you hire us to do X? X can be any audit or first-party research, second-party research. It can be anything. It's just a small paid step where you're going to uncover some information, get the lay of the land, validate or invalidate assumptions.

David: Does that project need to be profitable?

Blair: It should be profitable, but it doesn't need to be expensive. I'm doing something in a month where we're going deep into this. One of the first mistakes that you make when you start to formalize your diagnostics is you fall in love with them. You sell them too often, but you also make the delivery part too big.

Let's say you think, "I'm going to put a nice big price on this. It's not going to take me very much time," and you put a price on it, "I'll just pick $20,000," pick a number, don't read anything into that. You think, "$20,000 is good pay for the amount of work that we're going to do. It's going to be really profitable," and then you overdeliver on it. You overdeliver because of a lack of confidence, and you feel like you're making too much money for the amount of time you put into it.

You start to generate this ridiculously long report, and your profitability erodes with every word. That's just a part of the journey that you have to get through. Then you come out on the other side. Initially, the idea is they'll be profitable. Then you discover they're not profitable. You think of them as a loss later, and then you really should get past that and learn to rein in the report writing and make them profitable again.

David: Right. Back to the first step. The ideal is to win some work without pitching free ideas. That's not always possible. You still want this client. The second priority is to derail the pitch or, to use another phrase that you've used, to somehow influence the buying process. If somebody comes to me and says, "Oh, I really want this work, but it's an RFP and it violates," then the first question I'm always going to ask him is, "Do you think you can influence the buying process just borrowing that from you?" It's like their eyes open. It's like, "Mm." They know way more clearly, almost instantly, whether they should or they shouldn't. That's the second priority. Derail the pitch if you can. If that doesn't work, then what do you do? What's the third priority?

Blair: Third priority is to try to gain the inside track. In my most recent book, The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise, I refer to this as the advantaged player, where the principle in the book is assume an advantaged player.

In every competitive situation, you should assume that there is a party that has the inside track, that has the advantage. They either have inside information, they have a connection to a senior decision maker, or sometimes it's gone as far as the outcome is predetermined, and you are just invited to the table to fulfill a requirement to get three bids. It's not always the case that there's always an advantaged player, but it is valuable for you to assume that there was always an advantaged player.

If you assume this, then the next logical question is, "Is it me? Are we the advantaged player?" Because if we're not, then it's somebody else. What we're trying to do here and gain the inside track is, again, we're trying to affect the buying process. We're trying to extract behavioral concessions that wouldn't be as significant necessarily as derailing the pitch as those that would cause us to derail the pitch. We're trying to extract behavioral concessions that prove that the client sees us as meaningfully different. They see us as different. Therefore, they're willing to treat us different. That was the subject of that podcast.

David: Assume an Advantaged Player, November 2024, if you haven't listened to it yet.

Blair: The other one, about The Only New Business Indicator You Need, something like that.

David: Oh, right. Yes. In October 2019, The Only New Business Indicator That Matters was what we titled that one.

Blair: Right. Did you affect the buying process? It's pretty clear you're affecting the buying process at the second priority, where you're derailing the pitch. If you can't derail the pitch, let's say the client says all the right things to you. "No, we really want to work with you, but I can't just hire you. We've got to go through this process," then you would say, "All right, I understand you've got to go through the process, or happy to accommodate you. Can you do a couple of things for me?" Those couple of things can really be anything. It's really under the banner of all the other behavioral concessions that you might extract from the client that would prove behaviorally that they see you as meaningfully different.

We've talked about this in other episodes, things like sharing confidential information, moving the meeting, them coming to see you. A big one is access to missing decision makers, paying for a first phase diagnostic, conducting an unpaid needs assessment, et cetera. All of these little things that were not originally part of their buying process, you get them to agree to them. You don't get them to agree to a list. Start with the one thing, see if you can affect the buying process in some way. Then from there, you'll start to get a sense of whether or not you have the inside track, you are the advantaged player, or somebody else has that inside track and they are the advantaged player.

David: This, to me, is like I keep thinking about a high school junior, senior prom or something. Assume that there is an advantaged player in her mind and it may not be you just because you're with her at this thing. [chuckling] This is recalling a very specific event in my life.

Blair: Say more.

David: Yes. [laughs] I think everybody understands exactly what you're talking about here because they have been dragged into a competitive dance-off something, but they've been assured like, we really want to use you. In fact, this is where, can you help us write this thing so that you're a better fit for it? Everybody has known when they've been the advantaged player. I think everybody has known when they have not been, too, where it just feels like, oh, it doesn't really even matter what I do, I'm going to lose this thing. Then every once in a while, they're surprised, but most of the time they're not.

This one, I think, really resonates with people. I don't think there's anybody listening to this that doesn't understand exactly what it means to be gaining the inside track or not having the inside track. What you're saying is, you need to make this a part of your decision matrix. If you don't think there's any chance you have the inside track, probably don't waste your time, or is that too harsh?

Blair: Well, if you can't gain the inside track, then you'd go to the fourth priority, which we can jump to. I'd like to say just a little bit more about this.

David: About the dance that I failed, or you wanted to dance?

[laughter]

Blair: It's important that we measure the client based on their behavior rather than their words. Clients will often say to you, "Yes, we really want to work with you. You just have to play ball," "Oh, we've been a big fan of your agency for years." You could infer from that language that they see you as the expert, they like you the most, you have the advantaged player position. Whenever you hear these words, and I've learned this the hard way, you need to try to extract a behavioral concession that proves that those words are true.

I'm still scarred by an experience I had before I launched Win Without Pitching when I was still doing business development for an agency. There was a guy I worked on for a couple of years, and there's a specific project I wanted from his very large company he worked at. I would buy him lunch every few months. He was pretty clear that, no, you guys are in a good position for us to-- I don't remember if he said we were going to get the piece of work.

David: He enjoyed your lunches while he's telling you this, right? [laughs]

Blair: He enjoyed my lunches. Then when he left, I didn't know, I've told the story a few times, and I followed up with his replacement. That person said to me, "Oh, we're not responsible for that, that's another department." He was leading me along the whole time. That's when a mentor of mine said to me, "Blair, we measure people based on their behavior, not based on their words."

It's nice that they say nice things to us, but we need to extract a behavioral concession too, so that they can prove that they mean those words. That's what we mean by gaining the inside track. What are you going to do for it? Are you going to treat me differently than you're going to treat everybody else? The question of what that treatment is, what the thing is, I don't think it's all that meaningful.

David: Could it just be telling us who else is participating? Could be something that small.

Blair: Yes, it could be sharing confidential information, this is who's involved, et cetera. When you find somebody saying, "Yes, it's not something we're giving to everybody, but yes, I'm happy to send you that or do that for you," that's a good sign. If the client says, "Yes, I'll share that information with you and then also have to share with everybody else," you're not the advantage player. You don't have the inside track.

David: Yes. People's instincts are probably pretty clear, pretty reliable, I would think about in this point.

Blair: They do get clouded in the excitement of a sale. We sometimes get overly carried away with the language. I've lived this for so many years. You hang up the phone and you say to the team, "Well, the good news is they loved us and we came in second." Everybody comes in second. Everybody who doesn't win a pitch came in second. [chuckling] We extract some encouragement from those words when we shouldn't.

David: All right. The first is win without pitching. If that's not possible, derail the pitch. If that's not possible, gain the inside track. Then our list is ending here with number four. Then it's like, okay, what's next? You've said walk away. I have a question about that from the very beginning. I think you would agree with me. As I was reading through this, preparing for the interview, I was thinking, this isn't the fourth step in that you only think about it at this point. It's almost something that you have to have as a bedrock underneath everything you do. It's like you're willing to walk away from anything, even though you may not pull that rope until the end. You have this as part of a mindset, right?

Blair: Yes. Even in my earliest days, I used to always say to myself, "I'm rich. Money means nothing to me," at a time when I was far from rich and money was very meaningful to me. There's something about the creative professions. I was just reading some stuff on LinkedIn last week of people lamenting how they were screwed around in a pitch and they were burned by the client. They just reek of this neediness. They just can't stand that they didn't win a business. They're so hurt by it. God damn it, it's just business. Can we not get so emotionally excited about the opportunities and then they won't hurt so much?

Then if we can go into these sales opportunities, just letting go of the outcome, not over-investing in the sale, following this model, and if we find we can't win without pitching, we can't derail the pitch, we can't extract any meaningful concession that signals to us that we are the advantaged player, that we've gained the inside track, can we just accept that in this competitive situation, our odds of winning are roughly 1 over 2n, with n being the number of firms under consideration.

Four firms under consideration, we think, well, we still have a 25% chance. No, you've tried to gain the inside track and you didn't, so somebody else has it. Your odds of winning aren't 1 in 4, they're closer to 1 in 8. That's an approximation, but they're way worse than 1 in 4, way worse. If you can affect the buying process in some way, you can extract a behavioral concession and get the signal that you are the advantaged player, your odds of winning are greater than 1 in 2. This is a pretty straightforward numbers game. It's not as straightforward as there are four of us, our odds of winning are 1 in 4.

David: You remember the episode you did, Slapping Down Your Childlike Glee?

Blair: Yes.

David: That's all I could think of while you're ranting. [laughs]

Blair: I remember the client situation where I had been working with these people for a while. A lot of them were senior gray-haired people. They were really grokking the principles and the frameworks. Then this big stupid thing that was never going to happen, but it had a multi-million dollar price tag on it, came in and they just lost their shit. It was like I was so-- It was like the sugar high and I just, well, nothing I can do. Let the kids run the sugar high off and maybe we'll have a conversation when they all crash back down to earth.

David: Your emotions at this stage are sort of like, "Oh, that's too bad. I'm the prize. Too bad they're not going to get it"? Or is that a little too self-serving?

Blair: What your emotions should be at this stage?

David: Yes. When you walk away, it's like, "Oh, that's too bad. This would have been fun, but I am the prize and they're not going to get it." It's rather than, "They are the prize and I didn't get it."

Blair: Walking away was taught to me many years ago as close number 10, the takeaway. When I say walking away, people see finality there and I don't. I'm a patient person. That's another way of saying I don't have a very high competitive drive. I think everybody's buying and the only variable is time and I'm willing to be patient. Now, I can't impose that worldview on everybody else. That's entirely personal. I'm not saying that's the right view. I would benefit from having more impatience, having higher sales drive.

When I take a step back, the first thing I'm doing is I'm seeing if the client follows. If they say, "Well, wait a minute, let's not get rash here. Let's have a conversation about what might be possible," that's the first thing I'm looking for. If that doesn't happen, if I take a step back and say, "I think we're going to take a pass on this. Doesn't seem to be a very good fit for us," pause. They say, "All right, see you later." [chuckles] I was never going to win that business. Never going to win that business.

If they say, "Really? Are you sure?" seems a little drastic. Then that's the door to keep the conversation going. That's the client keeping the door open, having a conversation. I can explain why I don't think it's a good fit. I can explain why the things that the client might do in both of our best interests for us to keep going. I'm taking a step back. I'm beginning to walk away. I'm not saying, screw you, I'll see you in hell. I'm not flipping them the bird. I'm not doing any of that. I'm just saying, I think we're going to take a pass on this. Doesn't seem to be a good fit for us.

David: That's just such a great addition. This is not an anger sort of thing. It's just more a recognition that as I understand it right now, I mean, you're not saying all this, but in your head, you're thinking, as I understand it, right now, this probably isn't a good fit for us, so regretfully, we'll probably need to step away rather than screw you, like you've mistreated us.

That's a very good addition to this because my mind went first to, well, they're the ones losing here. I'll go find somebody that loves me. It's not that. Always leaving open the response to still impact to see if you are the advantaged player, if they fight you. Rather than quitting and somebody tries to keep you around as an employee, it's like, oh, what a relief they left. It's not that.

Blair: If you're the client and I walk away and you let me walk away, I could say, well, good luck with your pitch. Listen, if the process doesn't yield what you're looking for and you come out of this and you're still frustrated and you want to have another conversation, just reach out to me. I'd be happy to have another chat. Then after that, I'm going to take a note.

If I still think, well, this would be a great project for us, I'm going to take note of the timeframe and I'm going to make a note to check in maybe a month, two, three months after they've made a decision and started working with my competitor, and I'm going to reach out and say, "Hey, just wanted to check in. I hope that process worked out for you. I hope you've found somebody you're madly in love and you've walked off into the sunset." You might hear, "Well, as a matter of fact, nothing worked out," or, "We hired somebody and it's not working out." You'll hear, "Yes, it's great. Thanks for checking. It was nice to talk to you, but yes, we've got somebody who's perfect for us." Or you might hear, "Hey, are you free for a chat?"

David: Yes, right. What I would say is, I just wanted to check on you. I was worried. I know who you hired. I was hoping that their bankruptcy or that the principal--

Blair: [laughs] The David Baker spin.

David: I know the guy went to jail for a couple of days. It probably didn't impact the delivery of the project. I just wanted to make sure you're okay. That's what I would be doing. [laughs] Maybe I should pass all these notes by you first.

Blair: Yes, that's fantastic. I love it.

David: Yes, so these four priorities. First, win without pitching. Second priority, derail the pitch. Third, gain the inside track. Fourth, walk away. If people want more on this, which book is it again they need to buy?

Blair: It's in The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. Then, Assume an Advantaged Player is in The Four Conversations.

David: All right. Thank you, Blair.

Blair: Thanks, David.