A DIY New Business System

Instead of just relying on the talent of individual sales people, Blair recommends creative agencies identify and invest in six elements as a part of their organization’s long-term sales system.

Links

"Critical Questions Your New Business Person Should Be Able to Answer" 2Bobs episode

"How to Ask for Referrals" 2Bobs episode

"CRM and the Mistakes to Avoid" 2Bobs episode

"Who Should Set Prices?" 2Bobs episode

"Mastering the Value Conversation" 2Bobs episode

Transcript

David C. Baker: All right, Blair, today we're talking about a do-it-yourself new business system. You're sneaky with the title.

Blair Enns: Yes.

David: If you'd been honest, you'd have said something about sales, but no.

Blair: Oh, don't use the S word so early. We just lost everybody.

David: A do-it-yourself new business system. I was scrolling Facebook this morning, and it throws memories in front of you, like the things you posted so many years ago, and a fellow consultant posted something 14 years ago where he quoted me, and I didn't realize I'd been saying it this long. The phrase was, "Listen, if you don't solve the new business problem, nothing else matters. If you do solve the new business problem, you'll figure everything else out." I've just come to believe that that is so critical.

In fact, if you're running a firm and you don't have this excitement or this earnestness, eagerness to figure out the new business problem, you're probably going to struggle quite a bit. You're going to talk about a new business system. We've talked a lot about sales and new business, and I don't think we can overdo the topic. It's so important.

Blair: I don't like listening to other people's systems, but it's really just a model for how you think about everything that you need to think about when you basically codify how you go about getting new clients.

David: Yes. You have a note in here saying, "I'm going to try to not make this self-serving. I haven't run this by you first, so you can disavow it. Listener, we don't have sponsors. We don't sell ads. We don't ask for money. We love serving you, and this is our vibe. It works because, [unintelligible 00:01:54] without pitching for sales training or private coaching, you keep hiring me for advice, Jonathan for M&A stuff, and we like it that way, and it's a privilege to serve you.

There's a podcast I listen to, and I have to fast forward through the first 15 minutes because they're talking about everything I'm not interested in before they get right to the meat. Here I am saying thank you and taking a little bit longer to get to the meat, but I just want to say thank you for the opportunity to serve you and to make this possible without ads. There we go.

Blair: That's great. Now I'm going to finish the rest of that point about it not being self-serving because of what I said in my note to you, because honestly, what I think the listeners should do, I think they should get my book, The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise, and they should just implement that system, but I recognize that not everybody's going to do that.

David: If you don't buy the book, we're going to put ads in here.

[laughter]

Blair: Oh my God, we should do a telethon, and if we get enough people to buy the books, then we don't do ads. Oh, I've always wanted to do a telethon.

David: Jerry, what's his name?

Blair: Jerry Lewis.

David: Yes.

Blair: Yes.

David: Why is the system important? You make a really interesting distinction between the short and the long-term, which I want you to dive into a little bit.

Blair: Yes. I say in the short term, most of these creative businesses have one person in charge of selling or new business. I'll use that term interchangeably. In small firms, it tends to be the owner of the business, but then you get to a certain size, and maybe now you're hiring for that position. The common mistake, instead of investing in a system, is you invest in a person.

I'm not trying to make the case for not investing in a person, but here's the metaphor I use. The new business system is the car, and you've got the car at the beginning of the starting line of the race. Then you hire a driver, the person, and you put the driver in the car, and they advance the car as far as they get until they leave and they go work somewhere else. Maybe they don't work out. You let them go.

If you haven't invested in the system, then the metaphor is the car backs up to the beginning, and you go and hire a new person, and there's this expectation that the person is going to bring the system with them. There's something about this function of selling that we think not only are people magical who do this, but we should let them come in and do it their way. We don't want to encumber them. This isn't universal, but it's common. We don't want to encumber them with our system. My key point here is, invest in the system, own the car, so when you have to swap drivers, you're not backing up to the beginning of the starting line.

David: It's like a Le Mans race, 24 hours, lots of different drivers. There's a whole team, and it's not just one driver. It's, "Get in the system and drive it for three hours. Now, next, you get in the system and drive it for three hours." They're not bringing a system like you said. They are bringing something that's valuable besides just their own ability, and this is a sad thing. It's often just a Rolodex of relationships, which then they take with them when they leave and introduce the clients that they have leased to you for two years, and they take them to their new job, right?

Blair: Yes. It's not a bad thing to hire somebody for a Rolodex. I used to be adamant, "Don't do that." The reality is, especially if you're vertically focused or you hire somebody senior who has relationships with the senior people that you sell to and want to do business to, it makes sense to hire somebody for those connections. The thing you wanted me to speak to earlier, where I make the point here that in the short term, the individual is actually more important than the system.

If you're thinking short term, you hire an individual with good contacts. If you're thinking long term, then the system is more important than the individual. You can do both. You can hire a good individual today, and you can build the system over time. These steps that I'm going to give you, you don't get them done in a few weeks or months. It's a journey.

David: Yes, there are six of these, and one of them towards the end talks about measurement, gauging effectiveness, and just made me think we don't need to talk about that much now. A great salesperson isn't just measured by sales results, but the degree to which they help the firm develop a system, too, which doesn't really help them short term, but it helps the firm.

Blair: Yes. My point here is, don't look for the person to bring their system. Ideally, you fast forward in time, and you've got your system in place. As you'll see when we get into this, it answers so many questions about the role, "What do I want this person to do? What type of person am I looking for?" and all kinds of other questions downstream from that.

David: Just a little bit more about the system because I don't think most firms already have a system. If they have a system, then part of the hiring process should be to determine whether this salesperson is a good fit for this system. If they don't already have a system and you don't want the salesperson to bring the system, then it's the principal's job to develop the system?

Blair: Yes.

David: Just wanted to make that clear. There are six elements of the system. The first is the client and the goals. The client and the goals. We're going to go through each six of these. Talk to us about this first one.

Blair: This is pretty straightforward. I'm going to go through this pretty quickly. The client and the goals. Who are your future clients? What's your ICP? What's your ideal client profile? If you haven't modeled that out, that's an obvious place to start. What does your future clients look like? Who are they? Where might you find them? After that, what qualifying questions do you want answered before you agree to a meeting? We've talked about this before. We'll post the link in the show notes. Critical questions your new business person should be able to answer. Was that the podcast?

David: Yes. Exactly. Critical questions your new business person should be able to answer. Partly, maybe if we were redoing that title, we'd say your system should ask your new business person to make sure are answered [laughs].

Blair: Yes. You've identified who your ideal clients are. You've identified what the red flags are. These are danger signs, and you've identified the hard lines of people or organizations you absolutely will not do business with. That's the client. Then, goals, I feel like I'm stating such an obvious thing [chuckles], but what are your sales goals? The key here is to think beyond revenue. It should be more than just a number. You want to think about the client type, the client makeup. That's part of who the client is, but also the number of clients, and then the minimum or average revenue per client.

We've probably talked about this at least a couple of times in the six, seven, 15 years we've been doing this, whatever it's been. This idea that if you set a sales target as just a number and you don't have a minimum level of engagement or you don't have a hurdle that your new clients should clear, then you're going to end up with this problem of too many, too small clients. Especially if you incentivize your salesperson the wrong way.

David: I'll tell you this process of setting definition of a good client and goals usually raises the standard, doesn't lower it. It really is not fair to the salesperson to do this later. This should be identified very early on.

Blair: Yes.

David: Clients and Goals is first. Second is the sales model. You have eight examples here. I'm going to ask you which of these you most closely follow, and see if you can tell me which one I most closely follow. You have a note that you pulled these from ChatGPT. Are we going to have to tell people when we do this? Because I find this is the most interesting part about this. You said, "Okay, I got this from ChatGPT."

Blair: Yes. I use AI for research the way everybody else does. If I put forward a list like this and I didn't develop the list, then I owe it to the listener to identify the source, and the source is just AI. I thought it was pretty good. It was actually a list of nine. I deleted one. What do I mean by sales model? I mean a thesis of how you should sell, and there's all kinds of different sales models. I'm going to name model types, not specific models, like the Four Conversations is my model.

To your question, I'll mention some of these, and you'll see most of these specific models, whether it's Spin selling or the challenger sale, et cetera, or the Four Conversations, whatever the specific model is, it's going to fall into more than one of these categories. Let me just go through the categories.

David: A mix of them, maybe.

Blair: Yes, absolutely. First, there's the Rainmaker model, according to ChatGPT, and I was smiling about this because we used to see the ad headline, "Rainmaker wanted," all the time. I used to make fun of that, the idea that we need somebody who's so special, whose skills are so magical that they overcome all of the positioning work that the firm's owner did not do. The definition of Rainmaker model is a few high-profile individuals bring in most of the business through personal relationships and charisma.

There are a lot of agencies that are built this way in the early days, in the first five, six, seven years. You and I have talked about there seems to be a ceiling at seven years that we don't really understand. Then you run into the ceiling, then you've got to move to another model. I'll just go through these as quick as I can here. That's the Rainmaker model. A small number of high-profile individuals building relationships.

Then there's the Seller-doer model, where the person who sells the work is the one who delivers it. You see that in some agencies, too. Account people basically go out and build their own book of business. They'll go get the business, they close the business, they deliver the business, and you scale the business by adding more and more account people.

David: Is this freelancer too?

Blair: Yes, I guess it's freelancer. That's not a scaled-up system, but freelancers could be all of these. Not all of these, because the next one is dedicated salesperson. Sales responsibilities are handled by a specialized team. I killed it, you clean it. It's separate from delivery. Often, once you hire somebody, you hire a dedicated salesperson. It's a new business person, and very often, they're not involved in delivery.

The opposite of that is number four, team selling. A mix of sales professionals and subject matter experts collaborate to win complex deals. Technical selling is typically team selling, and I think there's a lot in common between selling creative services and selling technical services. I think team selling is a good part of the mix.

David: Is that where a sales engineer would fall in team selling?

Blair: Yes, it might. I've seen that term used a couple of different ways. In team selling, you have the hunters who bring in the subject matter experts to help close, and even probably from a value conversation forward. Then you would bring in various technical experts, depending on the technical requirements of the sale. If I think back to my old generalist ad agency days, as the new business person, I'd get a meeting, I'd have the creative director, the media director, the heads of these different departments in there, mostly for the wrong reason, but you could think of that as a version of team selling.

Next, we have inbound/content-led selling. We talk about that a lot. There's definitely an aspect of that to the Win Without Pitching the Four Conversations approach. Clients are drawn in through thought leadership content and then nurtured into engagements. Then there's referral/network-based selling. Financial planners, that's massive in that space. We've done an episode on this where we basically said, "Listen, you're either referrals is your major, you're all in on it, or forget about it. You can go back and listen to that episode."

Seven is solution selling or consultative selling. The seller diagnoses the client's needs and tailors a solution before proposing a price. Then, eight is account-based selling. A small number of high-value targets or target accounts are pursued with highly customized outreach. Something in there resonated with you, the listener, one or two of them resonated with you, and there were a couple of them in there that you absolutely rejected. All of your businesses, among the listeners, they're different enough that you should pick and choose and gravitate to the macro model that you think makes the most sense for you, and then go looking for a specific model within there.

David: You might make that choice based in part on your personality, the assets you have to use to support your efforts, and maybe the particular area you're in marketing. If you look at entertainment video, that's so often driven by a rainmaker, and I have no idea why, but it's not usually driven by inbound and content. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's pretty obvious where you can make almost some assumptions about what sort of a model somebody has adopted by what space they're in.

Healthcare is way more inbound content-led. It'd be interesting to dive deeper into this at some point. Which one are you driven towards more than anything as a business owner? Not recommending for other people, but for yourself.

Blair: There's nothing on this list where I'd say, "Yes, we fall squarely into that." At some point, our clients are going to have to grow past the rainmaker model. I was talking to a global architectural firm today. The CEO is leaving, is going to retire, or be promoted to chair. Then the person moving into that role does not have the rainmaker skills that they do. They have been built to a certain size based largely on the strength of an individual, but that individual does not live forever or stay in the business forever.

That model needs to be replaced by something else. Typically, there's no right way to think about this, but most of these firms explore the Seller-doer, some explore team selling, some dabble in referral and network-based selling, but tend to give up fairly soon. I see our approach as consultative selling and team selling, a combination of those two things, primarily. What about you?

David: I'd say probably more inbound content-led selling. I'm starting to see the bigger point you're making in that you're not necessarily choosing one of these eight or however many there are. You may be blending them to come up with your own model. The point you're making is, have a model. When somebody says, "What is your sales model?" be able to describe it to them, even in your own terms.

Blair: Let me just correct something I said. I said, pick the category or the model type, and then go in search of a model. It doesn't work that way in reality. In reality, you get exposed to one through a colleague of yours, like a peer who's very successful at this and explains their system to you, or you read a book or listen to a podcast or something, and something just really, really resonates with you, and you adopt that. Then there is some bending of that model to the reality of your business or blending in little pieces of other models.

We've had very successful clients of ours go almost all in on Win Without Pitching, but weaving in stuff from other models. That works too. You end up with something pretty unique.

David: The first was Clients and Goals. What's the definition of a good client? How many do you need? All that. Second is you need a sales model. Be able to describe that. It can be your own, but it needs to be specific. The third is tech stack. Talk about that.

Blair: Everybody needs a tech stack. I almost got into the tech stack advisory business a couple of times many years ago. There were a period of a few years where we got deep into our client's tech stack, and then the tech just proliferated. It was like, "All right, we don't have the resources to stay up to speed on all of these different technologies, and I don't want to be a platform-specific organization." We backed away from it. There are some key elements of your tech stack. Your tech stack is changing with AI.

I have this theory. It's probably never going to come fully to pass, but God damn, I hope it does pass. The CRM can be so frustrating at times. If I think of my business, I've got silos of data everywhere. Here's a quiz for you, David. If I said to you, "Hey, I've got a sales call with this firm or this person at a firm. Have you done anything with them?" If you don't remember, where's the first place you searched to get that answer?

David: I saw that in your notes, and I thought, "Oh, this will be really easy to answer." Then I said, "Oh, shit, it's not easy."

Blair: It's not your CRM, is it?

David: No, absolutely it's not.

Blair: It's your email.

David: Oh, I didn't even list that in my answer, but that would be number six. I said memory first, and of course, that's becoming-

Blair: Failing.

David: -a less satisfying answer as I get older. Asana is next. We use Asana for everything. Project management. Then Dropbox. We have very strict naming conventions, and we've got client records going back 31 years. CRM, which I never search. Then, Workflowy. Jonathan and I, we take notes very furiously while we're on phone calls, and we put it in there. Then, of course, email. I didn't even think about that, but absolutely, email.

Blair: If you ask me, do I know so-and-so at such-and-such firm, the first thing I will do before I type it into CRM, I will type it into Gmail. I will see everything about my email relationship with them. If they've bought things from me, certain things show up in green, so I can tell at a glance, and then I can go get more information from exactly what they bought, et cetera. I can get all of that from email. My point is--

David: We could improve our tech stack, is what you're saying [laughs].

Blair: I have this vision. We've built part of this already, so we've got this snowflake database where we hoover up all of the data from our business. What I don't have yet that we're working on is just the AI agent that can go answer any question from that. I think at some point with AI integration and an SQL database-- not even SQL database, because you don't want to write SQL queries. I don't want to get technical here. You just want the AI agent to be able to answer the information from all the data sources.

ChatGBT does this. They've got these connectors now where they'll connect everything together. Google's got a pretty shitty version of it right now, but it will be good at some point. Anyway, what do I want to say about tech stack? You got to go figure out your tech stack. When it comes to CRM, this is the most important thing. We've done an episode on this, so you can check out that and it's just called CRM or something. The big issue with CRM is usage, where your people don't use it. You hire a new driver to drive the car. They don't populate the CRM. When they leave, a lot of that knowledge is lost.

You absolutely need to have email integration into your CRM. You have to have a CRM that the key people are going to use. You have to enforce usage of it. Then I've changed CRMs, I probably average every five years or so, over 23 years in the business. If I could do it all over again, I would never have changed from Salesforce, just because even when you think you've captured everything, the data that you lose when you swap out a CRM, it's a pretty large amount of data in my own experience. Be careful about switching out your CRM, your marketing automation tool, anything else in the tech stack. Choose wisely for the long term.

David: We use CRM. We'll blind copy any prospect email, and then Jonathan goes through that every month or so, and we'll follow up on prospects and find all kinds of gold buried in there. It's useful. The first is Clients and Goals. Second sales model, you need that. Then third, the tech stack, which we've just talked about. The fourth is assigning roles and responsibilities. Seems obvious, but it's really very, very critical.

Blair: Yes. There are other episodes. We'll post links in the show notes where we've talked about these sorts of things. I'm not going to go into too much detail. Other than the big caveat or the big thing to watch out for is actually go through the various parts of the sale and think about who should be handling this part of the sale. Who owns lead gen, and then who owns various responsibilities underneath that? Somebody needs to own lead gen. Who qualifies? Who qualifies new clients? Who qualifies existing clients?

Usually, it's the account people who qualify existing clients, but who qualifies new clients? Who has the value conversation? Who talks about money? Who sets initial pricing guidance? Who gets everybody's focus onto value creation and off of solutions? These are all questions you need to answer. Who sets price? Who creates the proposal? Who closes? Who delivers the proposals? Go through this list. I've just listed them all now, and your AI will summarize them. You should assign names to those lists.

Now, the mistake is to just operate on the default assumption that these areas of responsibility should be tied to the role. It's my point of view that they should be tied to the individual. When individuals of certain caliber leave, you might want to reassign that responsibility again. We're assigning responsibility. Part of it will be dictated by the model, but I'd like you to leave some flexibility for you to say, "You now what? This person is always discounting price. We're not going to let him set price with his existing clients. We're going to make this person bring in somebody else, a pricing counsel. We're going to have this other person set price for this person's account."

You really should be thinking that specific when it comes to individuals and their roles in selling.

David: The other thing you could do is train that person who has a weakness so that they're better at it. In fact, that was one of the biggest points you made in an earlier episode. It's called Who Should Set Prices. The overarching theme of that episode, as I recall, was whoever sets prices should be whoever's good at setting prices, regardless of what role they play. We've talked a lot about the value conversation here and elsewhere. For new listeners, that's a very specific and one of the most difficult things to learn.

If you want to search on an episode in the past, it's called Mastering the Value Conversation. There are quite a few episodes that deal with it, but that's probably the tent pole one that you ought to start with. I want to bring up an issue of exactly when the sales process morphs into the account management process. I have a theory that we ought to transfer this process as early as possible so that the new client doesn't feel like a bait and switch coming, and the account manager doesn't inherit promises that somebody else makes. Obviously, that's not going to work unless your account people are really good in the sales process too.

When you think about sending your salespeople to training, don't just think about sending your salespeople to training. Think about your account managers getting this kind of stuff, too, because not only should they help bringing new clients on, but they are following the same processes with existing clients. The only difference is they have more information there, and there's less of that initial stuff because you've already set the context of how good you are. It's not just salespeople here. Account managers need to be good at this stuff, too.

Blair: Yes, good point.

David: Fifth is incentives. This is a big topic. We're not going to talk too much about it here, but you want to say something?

Blair: Yes. This will be driven a lot by the model. If you look at your model choices, Rainmaker, if you have Seller-doer, so the person responsible for delivering the business is the person responsible for selling the business, then you need to structure the incentives differently than you would under the Rainmaker model, especially if the Rainmaker is the principal. Dedicated salesperson, it's going to be a different incentive structure.

We could quote Charlie Munger. We could quote numerous wise people over the years. Why are we talking about anything else when we haven't talked about incentives? Incentives drive behavior. We're called in to do training for account teams often. Yes, training is important, but training without the proper incentives, it's not going to work. We often ask, "Well, you now want these account people whom you hired to manage current accounts, you want them to actually actively sell, what are they going to no longer do? How are you going to realign their incentives so that it's in their financial interest to start selling?"

It's a big topic, but we're going to cover it pretty quickly here. It's cui bono? Who benefits? Show me the incentives, I'll show you the behavior. That's another Charlie Mungerism.

David: Yes. The final one is measurement and improvement. This one's fascinating to me because principals who don't find sales natural, it's not a natural fit for them, maybe they haven't had the training or whatever, they want to hand it off to somebody, and they have all this investment in the sales, so to speak.

I'm not talking about selling to clients. I'm talking about this salesperson, and they're there for six months, nine months, not much is happening. The way they measure it is, "We haven't got new clients." They're not thinking about all the other things that might have hindered this person's success, like lack of marketing or a shitty positioning or something like that. The sixth thing that you wrap this up with is measurement and improvement. I really like this. It means a commitment to continuous learning, training, all that stuff. What am I missing here? What else could happen?

Blair: As you alluded to, you want to identify your leading indicators. What are the things that you know? You're going to guess at them at first if you haven't already guessed it. If you work backwards, a lagging indicator is financial results. If there's a dollar sign there, money you made, you can look back on that and see that, "Okay, that's successful." What are the things where you look forward that predict future success? You would work backwards from money changing hands. It's a promise of money changing hands, a verbal commitment.

You look at late-stage opportunities, early-stage opportunities, volume of leads, and you keep going upstream from that traffic on your website, social engagement, outreach by various people. Build a model of where business comes from and how it flows through your system, and develop your leading indicators. Start to track them. At some point, you get predictive, and you will realize that if we get so much of X, it turns into Y revenue.

David: I heard something from you one time many, many years ago, and I actually use it with every one of my client engagements now. It's two questions that you ask yourself, often just to yourself. You don't say it out loud. It's this question, "Would I want to be the new business person at this firm?" Then, second, "Would I want to own this firm?" I keep using those two questions with my clients. Part of why I would answer yes to, "Would I want to be a new business person?" is do they have these things settled? Is there a system? Are there clear expectations? Is there the right support system? Do I have other people on the team? That helps you answer yes.

You want to be the kind of firm where you're going to hire some help and they say, "Oh, my God, I want to be there because this is set up for success." That's another way to think about all this.

Blair: When you peek into a firm, when I peek into, and I don't do this a lot these days anymore, but how they measure success and predict future success, and then how they report on that success, usually, there are some real tells, some real telling signs of whether or not they're thinking about this in a sophisticated manner or not. A common leading indicator would be a number of proposals written. Now, if you measure something, that measurement takes on a life of its own.

I've noticed that if you set a measurement target for a number of proposals, you'll get more proposals. You'll also lower your closing ratio and increase your cost of sale. Will you get more business? Maybe, but there's no direct correlation between increased number of proposals and increased number of deals. If you say the number of proposals submitted is a leading indicator, then you will get more proposals. Everybody will look busier, you'll feel busier, but the results won't necessarily be there.

They'll be there if they're qualified proposals, if they're proposals that should be written, but I can promise you, you're going to force a whole bunch of proposals that don't need to be written, and it's going to chew up a whole bunch of time. At some point, you're going to become quite frustrated by it. Reporting is the same thing. If I sat in on your weekly new business meeting or whatever you call it, I could learn some things fairly quickly.

First of all, are you reviewing every opportunity, including some of these early-stage ones that are way out? If you're going through every opportunity, then I can predict what your salesperson is going to do. They're going to exert unnecessary buying pressure on clients who are a long way from buying, and you're going to reduce the likelihood that they will buy because you'd say, "What's the status of this opportunity? What's the status of this? What's the status of this?"

Then you will follow that up with, or the salesperson will volunteer, "I'll check in with them." "Can you check in with them?" The salesperson's thinking, "I just checked in with them last week. What do I say now to not sound like I'm coercing?" This little thing of like, "How do we report?" My friend, Scott Edinger, has written a very good book called The Growth Leader. He talks about this a bit. Just the innocuous questions from on high to the sales team forces bad vendor-like sales behavior.

How do you report? Don't report on every early-stage opportunity. Make the distinction between early-stage and late-stage, and have your salesperson report in every weekly meeting on the status of those late-stage opportunities where momentum is important. Then look at the early-stage list. I didn't mean to get in the weeds here, but look at the early-stage opportunity list and ask for a summary report on all of them. "What's changed here? What's stalled? What do we need to talk about?"

You would start with the late-stage ones. You go opportunity by opportunity on the late-stage ones, the ones that are close to buying. Then the early-stage ones, there's going to be a bunch of them. Some of them will have sat there for a while. Ask for a general update. Ask the salesperson, "Where do you want to go deep in this stack?" Sorry, that's more detail than I intended to share.

David: No, that's good. We've been talking about a do-it-yourself new business system that consists of six parts. Start with defining clients and goals. Second, pick a sales model or a combination that fits you, your firm. Third, commit to a tech stack and then stay with it for a while. Four, assign roles and responsibilities. Five, align the incentives. Six, formalize measurement and improvement. Any last thoughts for us?

Blair: No, just use this as an outline. It's okay to go slowly, one step at a time. Hire the talented person. Do what you're going to do in the short term, but just make it a long-term project to build and own the car, okay?

David: All right. Thank you, Blair.

Blair: Thanks, David.